Layer upon layer Kucinich wanted & got it 'read into the record'!
Grounds for impeachment - criminal trial- conviction - punishment - burial
It will forever be in the Congressional record that Bush & Cheney were accused of these articles of Impeachment. If nothing else, it's there!
I dare the (laughable) G.W.Bush Presidential Library at SMU in Texas to include these recorded charges in their tribute to a 'WAR CRIMINAL'.
One of the worst democratic congresses ever
Almost everyone I know feels the people they elected to swing the congress to democratic control betrayed their support when impeachment was immediately taken off the table.
Bush likes Sarkozy's wife:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/...He can understand why Sarkozy chose that model, like she's a sedan with a lot of leg room.
McCain: a war-loving geopolitical fantasist born when African Americans were treated as sub-humans and women could be treated as slaves. (Also a liar)
by prestochango
2008..... Obama better can... n.t
Republicans don't have 60 votes, and it doesn't seem to bother them one bit.
by dkmich
exactly
The Democrats are bigger traitors than W in my mind.
by DUMBINIC
Walk. Or chew gum.
I'm sorry, and I'm not criticizing the poster when I say this.
But the question is framed incorrectly. And it's the Dem leadership's fault, along with the media's acquiesence and more than a handful of bloggers.
By basically asking, "Do you want us to investigate how we got in or do you want us to get out of Iraq?" presupposes Congress can't do both. It presumes Congress can't walk and chew gum at the same time.
Now, I have my own view -- tempered with 5.5 years' service on the House side and more than two decades actively working the Hill as a lobbyist or observer -- but once the above question is accepted the answer is obvious.
I was sentient during the Watergate hearings, along with Clenisgate, and recall that Congress did in fact manage to get a few things done during those episodes (whether Congressional inaction is a bug or a feature is beyond the scope of this discussion).
But framing -- or accepting someone else's frame -- that it's an either/or situation guarantees failure.
All of that having been said, the current Congress is accomplishing neither objective of the (improperly) framed question.
"Someday this war's gonna end..." -- Robert Duvall as Lt. Col. Kilgore in "Apocalypse Now."
by DCrefugee
We drink to make other people interesting.
Some people will surprise you if you challenge them. With 70% of the people against what this administration is doing, a smart person who wanted to be re-elected, might just vote with the people for a change.
I heard a story about a Japanese Company that was being sued by and environmental group to change its practices. The Environmental group won and after the trial one of the lawyers for the company made a point of thanking the environmentalist. He said that there were lots of people in the company that cared deeply about pollution and their kid's future, but if they would have raised that to the company they would have been fired. The laws suit allowed them to present the case for the environmentalists along with the case for the polluters.
I think there are a lot of Republicans, Independents and Democrats out there that agree Bush should be impeached, but until an actual investigation and trial they have to tell everyone that they wouldn't vote for impeachment. I bet a lot of Congress Critters would be delighted to vote for it but no one wants to sign on to start it. Except Dennis who doesn't have enough power to get it done.
I really think that if impeachment is started a lot of Republicans will quietly thank the Democrats who started it. Strangely enough they love our country too and can see the political pollution caused by King George.
Everybody eats, nobody hits.
by upperleftedge
The anti-impeachers don't want to be on record
The reason we don't get farther with an impeachment vote is that the Democratic leadership in particular is opposed to it, but does not want to admit this fact on record. If it gets to a vote, they're the ones on the defensive, not the impeachers. And they're fearful that they'll be labeled as complicit in what has happened the moment the GoOPers say, "you were in on the intelligence briefings too."
by decisivemoment
Impeachment is more
than how we got into Iraq. It's how this administration has lied and amassed power and privilege. This needs to be addressed or it will set precedent for decades to come.
Congress must wrest it's own constitutional powers back from the executive branch. The executive branch is completely out of control.
"You don't make peace with friends. You make it with very unsavory enemies." -Yitzhak Rabin
by juslikagrzly
Democratic Party leaders have spent nearly a year and a half reining in their caucus on this topic, determined to show that the party is more focused on getting out of Iraq than on how the nation got into Iraq.
Well, of COURSE the Dem leadership doesn't want to focus on "how we got into Iraq". After all, it was a Dem-controleld Senate that voted FOR the war, and Dem leaders who continued to support it for years afterwards (and, I suspect, still do).
They are not on our side. They never were on our side. They are not opposed to the war. They never were opposed to the war. They were still talking about succeeding in the war. And they'd not be paying even lip service to us now, if we hadn't gone out and won in the 2006 elections.
Editor, Red and Black Publishers
http://www.RedandBlackPublishers.comThis Congress was elected to stop bushco.
And there has been little if any progress on that goal.
Impeachment would be a slam dunk when the evidence could not be hidden by bushco machinations.
This Congress has let bushco run roughshod over OUR rights, and Nancy and Steny should resign from leadership positions.
St. Ronnie was an asshole.
by manwithnoname
historically . . . Whenever Dem Administrations have uncovered illegal domestic spying by Repug Administrations, they did NOT stop any of it -- they instead expanded it and turned it against their OWN political opponents.
The whole sordid story is laid out in excruciating detail in the Church Committee Reports.
It remains to be seen whether the next Democratic Adminstration does, or does not, the same thing.
Editor, Red and Black Publishers
http://www.RedandBlackPublishers.comby Lenny Flank
We're not going to get REAL Democrats
if we don't make any noise. Voicing support for impeachment now is important, even if you don't believe it will, or should, be initiated. It establishes just how dissatisfied we are with Bush and with Dems who continue to enable him, and it sends the message that we want to keep the option to fire our Presidents, regardless of Pelosi's preemption.
by maxzj05
Isn't all that impeachment does.
It also draws clear boundaries around the powers of the presidency. And it does it in a way that an electoral victory for Democrats can't do by itself.
Is a crushing electoral victory for Democrats a national referendum on the war? On health care? On globalization? On warrantless wiretapping? On the rule of law in general? On the fate of the Supreme Court? Or on reproductive rights?
How in the world will you ever know what a repudiation at the ballot box means?
By contrast, we know exactly what an impeachment is about, because it's written down and voted on. You'll know exactly why Bush and/or Cheney are being impeached, and therefore exactly what kind of behavior would therefore be likely to get a future president impeached as well.
You'll never be able to discern that from an election.
I'd also add that responding to rather extraordinary circumstances as though it were business as usual may set a dangerous precedent in itself. When Republicans say that making these accusations is just an attempt by Democrats to "criminalize politics," what do we think observers will come to believe if we respond by saying we'll simply settle it with an election?
Clearly we were trying to "criminalize politics" after all. Because if we were trying to separate out criminal activity from political activity, we would have impeached instead.
Waste more of your day at The Next Hurrah.
by Kagro X
I believe that Richard Dreyfus
made the best argument for the process of impeachment and that his reasoning, (which turned me from being pragmatic about it to believing it is a necessary process), is why Dennis Kucinich is pushing it now. I posted excerpts below.
Healthcare for ALL! NOW! & OneCare at MySpace
by SarahLee
An impeachment and removal does not activate the double jeopardy clause of the Fifth Amendment. The ex-officer may face criminal indictments and trials for the same conduct that led to their impeachment and removal from office.
Basically, I'm saying...enforce all the laws, dont pick & choose!
If flagrant abuse of the Constitution, (7+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
SarahLee, wilderness voice, James Kresnik, emidesu, magicsister, ROADRUNNER DEM, maxzj05
a document Bush swore to preserve, protect and defend, with his hand on the Bible no less, isn't important, the what prey tell, is?
This is THE most important issue we face. It is the most important thing our Congress could do. Constitutional scholars (not all Democrats, BTW) have said that if the Founding Fathers saw what was going on now, and saw that our elected officials are sitting on their keisters doing nothing about it, they would be appalled and ashamed.
To those who say we have better things to do, I am appalled. The Constitution is the very basis of our government and our nation. When someone pisses on it, it should make you outraged. It should make you want to "take them to the woodshed". Letting Bush and Cheney give us the finger again and again, is NOT the way to run a country. How can you condone someone blatantly shitting on our nation and its prinicples?
Let's get with the program, people.
IMPEACHMENT NOW!!!!
"In a time of universal deceit -- telling the truth is a revolutionary act."
by MA Liberal
( Why can't someone just give the Chimp a blowjob? Paging Michael Jackson...)
Crime
This needs to be framed in terms of crime. If someone holds up a bank, no one says "We shouldn't dwell on the past, let's focus on improving bank security rather than punishing the bank robber." No, we try the robber and punish him. Republicans (and Democrats who want to look as tough as Republicans) acknowledge the importance of punishment and deterrence; to do otherwise with a corrupt administration is being "soft on crime" in the highest sense of the word.
(Mind you I'm talking framing...the GOP talks a good game about being tough on crime but aren't consistent about it, particularly with white-collar crime.)
by LihTox
"If you let a bully come into your garden one day, the next day he'll be up on your porch, and the day after that he'll rape your wife in your own bed." - LBJ
I guess Pelosi feels like since we've already been raped a few times, it doesn't really matter anymore. The raping is almost over, we'll just go quietly onward and pretend like it never happened.
by DUMBINIC
Impeachment is a Civic Responsibility
..Because Dreyfus said so well, what I think Dennis Kucinich believes and explains why Dennis is pushing these articles now...
Richard Dryfuss on "Real Time" with Bill Maher as recorded by RenaRF
MAHER: And you think he [the President] should be impeached? I mean, what would that get you? Cheney as President?
DREYFUS: The two reasons that one would argue against impeachment are the Vice President and the Democratic Congress. But I'm not in favor of impeachment. I am in favor of the process. And I believe that unless the society stands against certain things, they will have endorsed certain things. Like torture, leaving the Geneva Convention...
MAHER: Right. That is well said.
DREYFUS: ...and lying to the Congress about the reasons for war. And once the Republicans are placed in the position of having to endorse torture, you've got a bad problem on your hands. And we do not realize that this is not about impeachment - it's about the other branches of the government doing their duty so that you don't hand off to a liberal or a conservative - the President - swollen powers when no one ever turns power away. No one ever says "oh no thank you - we're not going to use that".
And so whoever gets to be President will use the power handed to this President. And we will rue that day unless we stand in some way against that, even in a minority report. Even if we... if you lose an impeachment hearing - whoever "we" are - then at least you have a body that says we stand against these things. And unless you do that, then you're for them.
From a CBS News report:
Impeaching Bush Is 'Cause Worth Fighting for,' Actor Says
"There are causes worth fighting for even if you know that you will lose," Dreyfuss said during a speech at the National Press Club. "Unless you are willing to accept torture as part of a normal American political lexicon, unless you are willing to accept that leaving the Geneva Convention is fine and dandy, if you accept the expansion of wiretapping as business as usual, the only way to express this now is to embrace the difficult and perhaps embarrassing process of impeachment."
Noting that the process was established by the country's "founders, who we revere to check executive abuse with congressional balance," Dreyfuss said impeachment "is a statement that we refuse to endorse bad behavior."
"If we refuse to debate the appropriateness of the process of impeachment, we endorse that behavior, and we approve the enlargement of executive power," regardless of whoever may occupy the White House in the future, he said.
"And don't kid yourselves: No one ever gives up power, ever," Dreyfuss added.
"Now, it is not your job as the press to impeach George Bush," the actor stated. However, people in the media should "maintain the integrity of that debate" by not dismissing the topic out of hand as partisan or unpatriotic.
During his address on the subject of Hollywood's view of contemporary news media, Dreyfuss said he is not a cynic or a liberal, but is instead a "'libo-conservo-middle-of-the-roado,' and I have been for many years."
"I'm deeply in love with my country," he added. "As a matter of fact, I'm deeply in love with the country that I was taught about in school, the land of the free and the home of the brave."
[...]The actor saved his harshest tone for those who accuse critics of the government and its officials of having a more serious motive.
"Watch me lose my sense of humor if people accuse me of treason," Dreyfuss said before mocking two of the Fox News Channel's most popular hosts. "'That's not very O'Reilly of you, Mister Smarty-Pants,' or 'What would Sean Hannity have to say about that, Mister Too-Complex-for-Your-Own-Good?'"
However, "none of this happened because of any conspiracy," he stated. "This happened because we have not paid attention to the new rules of the electronic media."
To restore true American values, the actor called for children to be taught "the tools of debate and dissent," as well as a return to the principle of civility, which he called "the oxygen that democracies require else they become poisoned and die, as this democracy will.
Healthcare for ALL! NOW! & OneCare at MySpace